Sean Bean => Flicks & Films => Topic started by: patch on November 26, 2017, 09:25:21 AM
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Taniel is a short art noir film by Garo Berberian about the life of Armenian Poet Taniel Varoujan before he was murdered in the Armenian Genocide.
We are very pleased to announce that #SeanBean is the narrative voice of “Taniel”. It was a pleasure to work with Sean in Somerset, and hear him deliver @BenHodgsonDOP's #poetry with his wonderful gravitas and deeply stirring emotive voice. #film #shortfilm #filmnoir #arthouse
(http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad116/patchfolk/Sean%20Bean/sean%20bean%203/DPkTPDFWsAIKYsO_zpspcja4avj.jpg) (http://s927.photobucket.com/user/patchfolk/media/Sean%20Bean/sean%20bean%203/DPkTPDFWsAIKYsO_zpspcja4avj.jpg.html)
(http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad116/patchfolk/Sean%20Bean/sean%20bean%203/DPkTPEXX4AAd5U8_zpsh7lgfxsp.jpg) (http://s927.photobucket.com/user/patchfolk/media/Sean%20Bean/sean%20bean%203/DPkTPEXX4AAd5U8_zpsh7lgfxsp.jpg.html)
https://twitter.com/tanielfilm/status/934799776918523904
Finally excited to announce that the narrator of my Dads @garo1967 film Taniel is the #LOTR and #GOT legend #seanbean . A film about a Armenain post during the beginning of the genocide . Stay tuned on Facebook and on twitter to find out about how to watch it !! 🧝🏻♀️🧙🏻♂️🧝🏻♂️ #fantasy #Nedstark #armenian #film #new #release #exciting #gameofthrones #lordoftherings #filmmaking #narrator
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bb-QoHSjgmd/?taken-by=noosh101
Really pleased to be able to announce today that Sean Bean is the narrative voice of @tanielfilm. Its wonderful to have an actor who I respected so much part of the film. Really Pleased
https://twitter.com/Garo_Berberian/status/934810562474795008
Tomorrow we'll be sharing some great news about the #narrator of the #film. He's one of the most talented and recognised #British #actors around, and a very nice man too. Here is a teaser #trailer with his voice: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFJGAbkzUGI … #shortfilm #arthouse #filmnoire #armenian
https://twitter.com/tanielfilm/status/934456788967079937
Narrator's voice teaser
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFJGAbkzUGI
https://tanielfilm.com/
https://www.facebook.com/tanielfilm/
https://twitter.com/tanielfilm
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChoHYOntIDRG7OxbHK2LfVg
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Mesmerizing voice our Sean has.....
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(http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad116/patchfolk/Sean%20Bean/sean%20bean%203/MV5BZGJiNmNiNGYtMjU3My00NjIxLWI1YjYtYjg5NDc3YmVhZWVlXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyNTM2ODk1OTc__V1__zpsbp2javmd.jpg) (http://s927.photobucket.com/user/patchfolk/media/Sean%20Bean/sean%20bean%203/MV5BZGJiNmNiNGYtMjU3My00NjIxLWI1YjYtYjg5NDc3YmVhZWVlXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyNTM2ODk1OTc__V1__zpsbp2javmd.jpg.html)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt7603760/mediaviewer/rm3727514880
https://tanielfilm.com/gallery/
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Actor Sean Bean, star of films including Lord of the Rings, Goldeneye 007 and Game of Thrones, is giving voice to a poem written by Senior Teaching Fellow Ben Hodgson DOP who coordinates the Cinematography unit at University of Portsmouth. The poem features in the film Taniel which follows the last days of poet Taniel Varoujan, one of over a million who lost their lives during the Armenian genocide of 1915.
The poem, entitled Indelible and voiced by Sean was written in response to Ben’s reading of contemporary accounts of the actual events later to be depicted in the film. ‘I was moved by the fact that after he was seized, Taniel Varoujan had kept on writing on scraps of paper used for wrapping morsels of food. Tragically we lost both the poet himself as well as the poetry he was writing at the time.’ says Ben ‘But it inspired me to imagine what his lost poems might have contained and that in itself was enough to give me a strong emotional connection to him, those persecuted and the murderous events that subsequently unfolded’.
Sean Bean was approached to voice the film once it had reached the fine cut stage. ‘Garo, the team and I had discussed various voices and Sean Bean was at the top of the list.’ says Ben who recalls shooting the actor for a BBC behind the scenes film of Goldeneye 007. ‘It was when I saw him in Red Riding a few years later that I really sat up and took notice. His character had such presence in that role, even when he was off screen and I was utterly convinced by him. It was down to our Poetry Producer Tatevik Ayvazyan, Garo and the team to make the impossible happen and when I got a call to say Sean had agreed to the role I really couldn’t believe it. Then, when I heard his voice delivering the poem… well, he infuses the words with such authenticity that it feels like he’s speaking from his soul - not reading from a page.’
Indelible is humanity’s conscience vocalised. The poem has the timbre of a voice shaped and scarred by what it has witnessed humans do in violation of humanity throughout history. It is laden with its own guilt and speaks of horror, shame and sorrow. It is a voice that comprehends the self-destructive side of the human condition but which pleads with itself, and with us the audience, to learn from our own repetitive genocidal history. It is a hurting, sensitive, timeless and truthful voice, and all are invited to recognise ourselves within it.
The words that flow from his heart,
The poems that pump from his pen
Seep into the soil,
Drop by drop by drop.
Teachers, Councilmen, clerical errors,
Bakers, Butchers, those betrayed.
Rich the lifeblood spills
as ink it fills the well.
Indelible.
Dip your pens.
https://benhodgson.tumblr.com/post/167941328419/sean-bean-gives-voice-to-taniel
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Thanks Clairette
(http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad116/patchfolk/Sean%20Bean/sean%20bean%203/tumblr_inline_p03a4i2Nrv1szrwe4_1280_zpst1mmn0lk.jpg) (http://s927.photobucket.com/user/patchfolk/media/Sean%20Bean/sean%20bean%203/tumblr_inline_p03a4i2Nrv1szrwe4_1280_zpst1mmn0lk.jpg.html)
(http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad116/patchfolk/Sean%20Bean/sean%20bean%203/tumblr_inline_p02vnsbgbq1szrwe4_1280_zpslq3kdpzh.jpg) (http://s927.photobucket.com/user/patchfolk/media/Sean%20Bean/sean%20bean%203/tumblr_inline_p02vnsbgbq1szrwe4_1280_zpslq3kdpzh.jpg.html)
https://benhodgson.tumblr.com/post/167941328419/sean-bean-gives-voice-to-taniel
New Poster
(http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad116/patchfolk/26169394_1830046693686127_7088793449363140749_n_zpsgfmsiiu2.jpg) (http://s927.photobucket.com/user/patchfolk/media/26169394_1830046693686127_7088793449363140749_n_zpsgfmsiiu2.jpg.html)
https://www.facebook.com/tanielfilm/photos/a.1364937420197059.1073741828.1226796370677832/1830046693686127/?type=3
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Taniel Film exclusive working previews @MeCCSA2018 13:30hrs Friday Main Cinema https://tanielfilm.com/ #Seanbean @BenHodgsonDOP @Garo_Berberian @bafp_uop
https://twitter.com/BenHodgsonDOP/status/951488071941402624
MeCCSA Annual Conference
London South Bank University, 10—12 January 2018
Screenings Friday 12 January 2018
13.30—15.00 Taniel (pre-release excerpts from the on-going edit (20 mins inc Q&A) – Ben Hodgson & Garo Berberian (DIR))
http://meccsa2018.org/screenings/
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“Taniel” – a film with two voices
We have two strands of voice in “Taniel”: original Varoujan poetry read in Armenian, giving us a sense of the poet, his feelings and emotions through his words, and narrative poetry written by Ben Hodgson in English telling the story of the film, the connective glue between the scenes.
Western Armenian is sadly a dying language and finding our “Taniel” was a protracted task but the job we had to do first. To hear Taniel in his native tongue and dialect we needed to record this with a Western Armenian speaker, ideally from Istanbul, Varoujan’s Constantinople, the voice also needed to be the thoughts of lead actor Tigran Gaboyan our on screen Varoujan and we were fortunate enough to work with a wonderful young actor Yeğya Akgün.
Our next task was even more difficult to find the films voice, the narrator needed to have the gravitas to hold court, tell the story of a tragedy and with an emotional depth, understanding and feeling that only an experienced actor could do. It was a privilege to have the opportunity to work with one of the most respected actors in the business, Sean Bean.
https://tanielfilm.com/2018/01/25/taniel-a-film-with-two-voices/
Sean Bean
Garo Berberian – Director
Sitting in my dad’s kitchen, drinking tea, the conversation of actor Sean Bean came up.
As a British Director, it was really important for me to have an English voice for “Taniel” but it was not just an emotional decision, in 1915 the fate of the Armenians in the Ottoman Empire was headline news here, it’s no coincidence that the arrest of Taniel Varoujan and the other intellectuals on April 24 in Constantinople was one day before the landings at Gallipoli.
We are blessed in Britain to have so many great actors and I could not have wished for anyone more than Sean Bean to be our voice. Not only does he give Ben Hodgson’s Indelible poem, (the narrative to the film), gravitas thoughtfully delivered with his south Yorkshire accent, but he owns the page and made challenging dark verses his own, with understanding, passion and respect.
My dad’s excitement at the news of Sean’s involvement in the film was fuelled with memories of the TV series “Sharpe“, a swashbuckling character putting the world to rights. Sean’s screen presence has appealed to many and across the generations, my children, brought up on a diet of “Lord of the Rings” and “Game of Thrones“, calling him affectionately by his stage names Boromir or Ned Stark.
This is a testimony to a man whose onscreen presence not only commands the scene he performs in, but also a loved character to the generations he has performed to. Poet Taniel Varoujan’s final months are voiced and his tragic story delivered by a wonderful master of word, Sean Bean who is not just an actor but a Pop icon too.
It was an enjoyable to work with him and something we look forward to do again on future projects.
Tatevik Ayvazyan – Poetry Producer
Sean Bean was already on the top of our list to read the English poetry in “Taniel” when the BBC screened Broken in 2017, a wonderful 6-part drama about Father Michael Kerrigan, a troubled Catholic priest, devoted to his parishioners.
Sean’s priest had a complex role – he preached, he prayed, he advised, he consoled, he argued – and he even sang drunkenly – I was lured by his voice he sounded wonderful in everything, and of course, like many of his other roles you felt for him and trusted in him as he can deliver a range of genuine personal emotions in difficult and emotive scenarios.
Broken wasn’t an easy watch – it unsettled and upset me, and was thought-provoking and moving at the same time, and it made us think that he’s the ideal candidate to deal with a challenge of narrating the tragic story of Varoujan
through poetry.
An actor of Sean’s calibre works, and works a lot, and getting into his diary in between his movie and commercial commitments is no mean feat. After several months of discussions we finally got a call to say he would be back in the UK for three days, in between filming in Central America and Italy, and on a sunny Thursday morning, in a small recording studio near his West Country home, we were able to sit down with Sean and record “Taniel’s” voice.
As a producer, it’s always a privilege to work with a professional like Sean, who was kind and intelligent, taking direction and contributing greatly with his understanding of the poetry, its rhythm and emotion.
Sean brought Ben Hodgson’s poem “Indelible” to life, giving a challenging subject warmth and emotion and the film – a voice to be proud of.
https://tanielfilm.com/2018/01/29/sean-bean/
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WOW !! Thank you Patch for posting this. TANIEL sounds like a WONDERFUL film !! I hope I can see it on the BIG SCREEN !!
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We've got some great news - 'Taniel' has been nominated at the academy affiliated Bermuda International Film Festival, and we're very much looking forward to its screening there next month and meeting the other film makers. http://www.biff.bm/
https://www.facebook.com/tanielfilm/posts/1863202653703864
http://www.biff.bm/
(http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad116/patchfolk/naamloos_zpszatcxorq.png) (http://s927.photobucket.com/user/patchfolk/media/naamloos_zpszatcxorq.png.html)
https://tanielfilm.com/news/
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23 March 2018 | Taniel will be screened at the Bermuda International Film Festival. [/quote]
https://tanielfilm.com/news/
Arrived in Bermuda for the Bermuda International Film Festival, really great to be nominated and looking forward to meet the other directors. The opening party's on Sunday, Radio interviews on Weds and “Taniel” @tanielfilm screening on Friday, very cool and happy to be here
https://www.facebook.com/tanielfilm/posts/1907958689228260
http://www.biff.bm/
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We’re very exited about Taniel’s premiere today at @biffbda!
https://twitter.com/tanielfilm/status/977168059260600320
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We were blown away & honoured as "Taniel" received 2 awards at @biffbda: attaining the most votes and receiving the Audience Award; and the award for Outstanding Direction.
https://twitter.com/tanielfilm/status/977888759365668864
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Watch this report on the @biffbda featuring @Night_Call_Film and @tanielfilm. Thanks to Hywel Davies at BBC @ZBMNews9
https://vimeo.com/262458759
https://twitter.com/Garo_Berberian/status/979489428342124544
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We are honoured to announce that “Taniel” will be screened at Screenplay Film Festival, Britain's most northerly and innovative film festival.
Screenplay is curated by its founders, Kathy Hubbard, film historian Linda Ruth Williams and film critic Mark Kermode.
It features a feast of film screenings, lectures and panel discussions involving national and international film industry professionals and film academics.
We are very excited to be invited to Shetland.
Read Mark Kermode explaining why Screenplay is better than Cannes: https://bit.ly/2HJdsDZ
https://www.facebook.com/tanielfilm/photos/a.1364937420197059.1073741828.1226796370677832/1944778285546300/?type=3&theater
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Thank you Patch for keeping us UP-TO-DATE on this movie. I HOPE I can see it in a theatre in AMERICA SOON !!
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We are really pleased to announce that “Taniel” has been nominated for the @GAIFFYerevan. It'll also be screened in several venues & cities across #Armenia. We look forward to the trip and meeting the other #filmmakers #shortfilm #arthousefilm #filmnoir #varoujan #seanbean #film
https://twitter.com/tanielfilm/status/1000130514865487872
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.@BenHodgsonDOP is the author of #Indelible, a powerful #poem, which is narrated by #SeanBean in the #film. Read the poem & Ben's story about how and why he got involved in #taniel with @Garo_Berberian https://tanielfilm.com/blog/a-trail-of-ink-a-river-of-blood/ … #countdown @GAIFFYerevan #GAIFF2018 #poetryfilm
https://twitter.com/tanielfilm/status/1011929408175828992
https://tanielfilm.com/blog/a-trail-of-ink-a-river-of-blood/
Indelible
Behold The Poet (Taniel Varoujan),
As he writes his heart
Upon history’s page.
Words that tumble,
Words that sing,
Words that fly
As swifts on the wing,
Freely declared over river and field,
Ringing through street, town and square;
And across the desk of the authorities.
Stop the clocks
Children, born and unborn,
For one hundred years of mourning
Invades this night,
The blackest night that ever befell a nation.
A trail of ink,
A river of blood.
Varoujan, a name, now numbered,
Checked and ticked,
(Poet in parentheses),
With Teacher, Musician, clerical error,
Baker, Butcher, man betrayed,
Each plucked
Under cover of the darkness,
In numbers still small enough to count.
Yawning their hunger,
Gape mouthed freight cars
Fed with humans,
By humans,
Crunch their jaws
Upon humans.
The final journey;
Its meter measured by the rhythm of the rails.
Click clack, click clack.
The coaches groan and heave their haul.
Click clack, click, click clack
Over wooden sleepers laid out in lines,
Like coffins,
Counting time,
Click clack,
In tens,
Hundreds,
And hundreds of thousands.
Morsels of food
Wrapped in paper
Sustain the souls in these last days.
But Taniel Varoujan hungers for what others discard
And such blessed scraps
bear his words across the years.
Behold the disappeared:
Teachers, Musicians, clerical errors,
Bakers.
A Butcher thrown in with the lambs,
Sensing the imminent slaughter,
Stills his tongue
To calm the flock
As one by one they are taken,
Stumbling as newborns,
To the knocking pen.
Do not turn away,
Stay and read the signs:
Breaking bread
Brings not death
But life.
And on this very day
His child,
Filling its lungs
With Taniel’s dying breath,
Cries out to the world.
So take, eat,
This is the word
Spoken for you.
The words that flow from his heart,
The poems that pump from his pen
Seep into the soil,
Drop by drop by drop.
Teachers, Councilmen, clerical errors,
Bakers, Butchers, those betrayed.
Rich the lifeblood spills
as ink it fills the well.
Indelible.
Dip your pens.
© Ben Hodgson 2017
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Wonderful news - "Taniel" will be screened at the very cool @dcshorts Film Festival in #Washington in September. More details to follow http://festival.dcshorts.com/ #film
https://twitter.com/tanielfilm/status/1026864979759251457
http://festival.dcshorts.com/
http://festival.dcshorts.com/film/
http://festival.dcshorts.com/films/taniel/
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Arrived in the beautiful Shetland Isles for the very cool Shetland Arts Screenplay Film Festival, going to catch as many films as poss and looking forward to our Screening and Q&A of Taniel Film on Saturday 1st at 2.00pm. https://issuu.com/shetlandarts/…/screenplay_programme_2018/8
https://www.facebook.com/tanielfilm/posts/2132832160074244?__tn__=-R
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After fab screening & Q&A at @ShetlandArts #screenplay, we want to say a massive thanks to @KathyHubbard16, @lindaruth1, @KermodeMovie - the #festival founders; & the multi Oscar & BAFTA winner @aardman Nick Park for taking the time to come & watch our #film, we’re honoured.
https://twitter.com/tanielfilm/status/1037037783985135617
At 2.00pm on September 1st “Taniel” was screened in Cinema 1 at Shetland Arts, Screenplay Film Festival. It’s always nerve racking sharing your film with an audience but the reaction was really great and the Q&A with festival co founder and film historian Linda Ruth Williams was wonderful. I still feel so touched with the comments we receive after screenings and I particularly want to thank the very talented multi Oscar and BAFTA award winner Nick Park for taking the time to come and watch “Taniel”. Thank you all that came to the screening and a big thank you to Kathy Hubbard, Linda Ruth Williams and Mr Mark Kermode for inviting us to screen “Taniel” with you and making us feel so welcome and I very much look forward to come back to Screenplay and Shetland in the future.
https://www.facebook.com/tanielfilm/
https://www.instagram.com/p/BnV1BwlBgqG/?hl=en&tagged=seanbean
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The very cool @dcshorts #FilmFestival is a few days away and were honoured that the @armembusa Armenian Embassy USA is supporting and attending the screening of @tanielfilm. @TatoAyvaz will be there for Q&A on the 8 & 10 Sept, see link below for tickets. https://bit.ly/2NUcdnK
https://twitter.com/tanielfilm/status/1037785409592459271
Here is a link to the 3 screenings and tickets for @tanielfilm at @dcshorts, film festival Washington. After the screenings there will be a Q@A with Tatevik Ayvazyan our Poetry Producer on Sept 8th & 10th. We very much look forward to see you there. http://festival.dcshorts.com/films/taniel/
https://twitter.com/tanielfilm/status/1037972774952808448
https://dcshorts.com/
https://www.facebook.com/dcshortsfilmfest
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Great news Taniel will screen at the #Montecatini International short film festival, one of the oldest festivals in Europe and we are honoured to be there. 22 – 28 Oct 2018
https://twitter.com/tanielfilm/status/1041942499558928384
Great news, @tanielfilm is been Nominated in the Best Short category @arpafilmfest Hollywood LA. It’s a really top festival and very pleased to be invited back, 2-4th Nov. Hope to see you there. #ArpaIFF #taniel #tanielvaroujan #Hollywood #filmfestival #nomination #shortfilms
https://twitter.com/tanielfilm/status/1045783001819418630
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We have a really busy and exciting month ahead for “Taniel” with 3 screenings over the pond in the US and Canada. We are first off to the City of Angels for @arpafilmfestival In 2-4 Nov and will be screening in the historic Egyptian Theatre on Hollywood Blvd. It’s very cool to be back at a festival we really love. Next we will be heading over to the Big Apple and another wonderful US landmark, the Lincoln Center in New York for prestigious @agbuglobal Performing Arts Screening of 6 films on the 16th Nov, before finally taking the short trip to Hogtown (never knew it was nicknamed that) and Toronto, home to the brilliant filmmaker Atom Egoyan, for @pomfilmfest on 17th Nov. Looking forward to the festivals and seeing our friends and supporters before heading back to the big smoke :)
(http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad116/patchfolk/44246918_402568223610794_8598481808923612756_n_zpsg5fuyocs.jpg) (http://s927.photobucket.com/user/patchfolk/media/44246918_402568223610794_8598481808923612756_n_zpsg5fuyocs.jpg.html)
https://www.instagram.com/p/BpSsmbelLgo/?hl=en&tagged=seanbean
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Honoured and very happy to win Best Short award amongst so many great films! Thank you Arpa International Film Festival! @arpafilmfest
#varoujan #shortfilm #filmnoir #arthouse #awardwinning #poetry #film #seanbean #apra #aprafilmfestival #filmfestival #bestshort
https://twitter.com/tanielfilm/status/1059376543418474496
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Immortal Dream: The Making of “Taniel”
It has been a truly wonderful experience sharing “Taniel” with audiences at festivals around the world. Whether it be at Screenplay in Shetland, Bermuda International Film Festival or at Golden Apricot in Armenia, one question we regularly get asked is, Why did we choose the protagonist for the film, our representation of the Armenian Genocide, to be Taniel Varoujan.
Varoujan was a deeply thoughtful poet, and in the film, we do not see him speak but hear his thoughts through his poems and thus the film’s narrative is mostly in poetry. The original Armenian verses are read by wonderfully talented Istanbul actor Yegya Akgun, who is the voice for onscreen star and one of Armenia’s best theatre actors, Tigran Gaboyan, who embodies the poet silently.
It was also important that the film is screened to a global audience. That’s why I wanted a British voice in the film too. We commissioned poetry in English, which was written by Ben Hodgson, telling the story of the film. These verses are the connective glue between each of the scenes. The next challenge was to find the English voice that would have the necessary grit and emotion. In Britain, we are blessed to have so many great actors; I could not have wished to cast anyone more perfect than one of the UK’s most recognized thespians—Sean Bean, the star of Game of Thrones and Lord of the Rings to be our film’s narrator. Not only does he have wonderful gravitas thoughtfully delivered with his South Yorkshire accent, but he also understood the pain and beauty of the story and made challenging dark verses his own, with understanding, passion and respect.
https://armenianweekly.com/2019/06/13/immortal-dream-the-making-of-taniel/
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Very NICE comments about SEAN !! I'm planning to get this movie on a DVD when it is a available on amazon. My husbands sister is married to
an Armenian and they both love TANIEL'S poetry.
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One of the most exciting festivals in the world - ZEBRA Poetry Film Festival
is currently taking place virtually, and we're so proud that our short film "Taniel" is a part of their exquisite selection. It's streaming on their Vimeo channel for 3 more weeks - here is the link if you'd like to lose yourself in some fantastic images and poetry https://vimeo.com/ondemand/zebrapoetryfilmfestival/ 🦓🎬📚
https://www.instagram.com/p/CIRcEfbISve/
https://vimeo.com/ondemand/zebrapoetryfilmfestival/
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Film Noir Taniel portrays one of the greatest innovative poets of the 20th century, a respected teacher, exciting public speaker, loving father and husband, Taniel Varoujan, who foresaw the destruction of the Armenian nation in what became the Genocide.
The narrative is mostly heard through poetry in Western Armenian – an endangered language now. It tells the story of Taniel Varoujan’s last months of life from arrest, detention, incarceration and murder, delivered by Hollywood legend Sean Bean and music by Philip Glass.
Watch now for free via the link in our bio!
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/ad116/patchfolk/ppp(4).png?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/patchfolk/p/20363da2-04bb-4ad6-81c4-2518950af98a)
https://www.instagram.com/p/CbPcJceqzXw/
Historical War Drama | Taniel | Lift-Off Global Network
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pj2hYGu7_I
We're delighted to announce that our short film, Taniel, is on
@liftoffnetwork's Youtube channel for a limited time
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pj2hYGu7_I
https://twitter.com/RebelRepublicUK/status/1504828812563030017
https://seanbeanonline.net/forums/index.php?topic=5401.msg126003#msg126003